Friday, October 07, 2005

When Bush asked for everyone in NO to please be identified and he used the $2000 card as an incentive, I wondered if that was part of a cover-up operation to flush out some released fugitives.
Any thoughts on this? Slightly off topic?#

Actually one of the earlier criticisms that Sen Landrieau responded to was the effort expended to shackle all the prisoners in the city/county jail. It seems to me the guards, police and sheriffs had to get them thru some flooded areas to the overpass where they were picked up and sent to other jails. (Remember a picture of a bunch of people in orange jumpsuits on the pavement?)

No they couldn't leave them there. The jail also had no water, food or electricity. The guards were in danger of having an uprising. They certainly did not release them - there was never an option of putting them out in that city. One of the ripple effects of this is absorbing these prisoners and about 75 juveniles was the over-crowding in the other state facilities. Also reported on a law school blog from a Baton Rouge lawyer is the total mess of the legal system due to the lawyers and clients being
displaced and many files (stored in basements) being underwater.

I wonder if the detainees the military is referring to are the looters who have been arrested?
Just a follow up on some previous comments and my nutrition digression. Ask prison guards if they want the meals cut back and made unappetizing. You will get a loud NO. There are few ways to pacify people you are keeping under lockdown. Food is one of the easier ones.

As far as overall behavior, good nutrition helps.

A double blind study at one prison showed that when they were given a balanced diet and limited junk food, their behavior was not as uncontrolled or violent. Which could be why the Falls Creek people felt it was reasonable to offer healthy food choices first.quote: (Page 8) The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason.

That is true once they were placed on the busses we had no way to determine their medical status. They have been exposed to several elements and prior to allowing them off camp we wanted to have them checked out by the Doctors and Nurses we had lined up at Falls Creek (Page 15 the people in the blue jump suits). We also had 22 ambulances standing by for medical emergencies. We had a similar camp in Northern Oklahoma and had 4 medical emergencies the night these good folks arrived and they needed immediate transport to a local hospital. Many of these US Citizens arrived with pre-existing medical conditions.

So you need to quarantine them for five months??. This is not logical. Ed Kostiuk, 50, drove from Oklahoma City to aid the search. He's a safety officer and medical assistant for Oklahoma and served as a Marine for 30 years. He also helped when terrorists attacked the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, and when an earthquake ripped apart a portion of the Bay Bridge in San Francisco in 1989. Is this you?

(Above from: http://www.floridatoday.com/columbia/columbiastory2A43078A.htm )
You were also a bioterrorism management official, no? Still are perhaps?

So that begs the question, why haven't the disease research facilities in NO been in the news? Do the biohazard research facilities in NO pose a danger to the people in the city? Have the post-flood refugees been contaminated with something you're not telling us about?

When FEMA runs their scenarios for NO, do they take into account the presence of the bioterror research facilities? Do y'all factor that into the simulations? Seems to me that you should be more worried about floodwaters contaminated with plague and anthrax, rather than razorblades
concealed in apples (such an urban myth) donated by Okies for the benefit of refugees.

quote: Page 1 stated: I packed up two car loads of us and headed over to Falls Creek. In the Emergency Management Community we have asked the population over and over not to "self deploy" and the following reason are given for such request. Ugh. So people are being instructed not to take responsibility for their fellow citizens, despite the fact that the refugees have complained
vociferously about a lack of basic necessities.

I think FEMA telling people to stop being charitable is a big mistake, the sort practically guaranteed to boomerang around and bite your organization in the *** . Telling people not to self-deploy is a very, very big mistake. Americans NEED to take more responsibility for their lives and their
decisions. If people want to help, let them. It's not just helping the refugees ya know, it's helping the helpers immensely.

This is just the sort of proclamation that makes people resentful of the government. quote: Prior to Jesse Jackson making his comments our Governor and the State Officer of Emergency anagement asked all Oklahomans to please refrain from using words such as refugees and displaced people. We were asked to use the wording "Oklahoma Guest". This went out on the media here in Oklahoma and in print.

The author of this report continues to use the term refugee throughout the paper. Well, I'm a writer, and I think I'll use the term that fits best. Similarly, I defend Val's use of whatever term she desires. Jesse Jackson and OK FEMA can use whatever term they like best, but when you start telling people how to speak, you cross a very real border.

quote: One of the primary reasons for using Falls Creek was the picturesque area and having the ability by faith-based groups to allow these folks the ability to put their lives back to normal, as much as possible, without having the press and lot’s of concerned citizens hound them for interviews and “how was it”.

So this was done for their own good? Did they request this sort of location? Have the refugees themselves got anything to say about this state of affairs? I think they do, and it aint "I wanna be up the woods, removed from civilization and hundreds of miles from the home I left behind."

Nope. Not by a long shot. I would wager green money that the refugees want to be as close to their homes as possible, not stuck up in a cabin in the mountains. While this life would suit me quite nicely, it makes most people crazy.

quote: We knew from the start that we needed additional security at the site so Oklahoma Highway Patrol officers were assigned in double shifts to protect those “guest” from the media and other “well concerned citizens”.

Wow. You totally just went there. You brought in the Okie highway patrol to protect the New Orleans refugees from well meaning Okie citizens? Is logic dead, did I miss the funeral?

Is this what FEMA does now? Y'all have turned your attention away from mitigating disasters and towards protecting citizens from the kindness of their fellows? How freakin' bizarre...

quote: She states her daughter “turned and snapped a picture of his vehicle (Page 5)—very conspicuously”. There was no reason for some James Bond type of picture taking OHP officers are very friendly and will allow their photo’s and that of their cruisers to be taken.

James Bond would have taken the picture INconspicuously. I think you got your concepts confused. There was no subterfuge involved here.

quote: The reason (page 7) for not allowing clothes was the fact we need to ensure they are clean and in good order. We have over the yearssat disasters received soiled and dirty diapers, ripped clothes and other related items by well meaning citizens. We now have retired ladies who help us select clothes that can be used by these folks. I have photos’ of thousands of clothes at Fall Creek that were standing by ready to be delivered to these folks.

This makes total sense to me, as far as screening the clothes before giving them to the regufees. This fact should have no bearing on your ability to take the donations offered. It's downright rude to refuse a gift yaknow.

quote: (Page 8) The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. That is true once they were placed on the busses we had no way to determine their medical status. They have been exposed to several elements and prior to allowing them off camp we wanted to have them checked out by the Doctors and Nurses we had lined up at Falls Creek (Page 15 the people in the blue jump suits). We also had 22 ambulances standing by for medical emergencies. We had a similar camp in Northern Oklahoma and had 4 medical emergencies the night these good folks arrived and they needed immediate transport to a local hospital. Many of these US Citizens arrived with pre-existing medical conditions.

So they're in voluntary medical quarantine? If they stick around they get food, shelter, medical attention, clothing, and a little bit of cash, if they leave they can't return?

Why is that, liability issues or something more sinister? I'm really curious about that bit.

quote: The reason your “pop-tarts” were accepted is they are sealed in an enclosed package and are “tamper proof”. We are trying to protect our Louisiana friends from the criminal element and bad people that might want harm done to them. What are we, 6 years old? Jesus christ. Is Al-Qaeda targetting the refugees with cyanide-dipped candy corn? "Why did the bad man fly the plane into the building?" "He hated freedom Billy. He hated freedom."

Do you honestly buy this explanation, or are you just paid to parrot it?

quote: This is the reason Apples and Oranges were not allowed. I wonder if this lady allowed her children to go around on Thanksgiving and accept open candy from strangers. I certainly freakin' hope so. Prove to me that haloween fruit has ever killed anyone, and I'll shut up and go away. Thing is, it hasn't, ever (to my knowledge). The whole cautionary tale is bogus, completely unfounded, paranoid to the nth degree, a big fat stinking urban myth.

But "BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID..OF EVERYTHING!" Right?

quote: The toys she refers to must first be checked. We have had “Christian groups” donate toys such as swords, toy guns and other devices that usually mean harm donated to our causes over the years so we check them closely before allowing any kids to play with them. I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Is FEMA going to take over parenting responsibilities as well? This should be interesting...

quote: The meals were going to be provided by the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. We at the Health Department were requiring that they eat hot food with plenty of vegetables not the “junk food” that this lady stated she was brining. Snacks were to be laid out during the day and night for their use, but meals which included the basic food groups were required 3 times a day.
So now FEMA is speaking for the refugees under its control when it comes to minor things like diet choices?

I think, no, I KNOW, the refugees are going to have a problem with that fact. I have a question. What on earth gave you the bright idea to post your telephone number? You realize just how many people might be calling you as a result, don't you?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread169641/pg1 Page 12....

There were buses coming in the front gate at about a rate of 1 every 2 or 3 minutes...We could hear them below us as we walked back up the hill...we could see their white tops through the trees...
No what you heard was the 22 ambulances we posted at the SITE..we NEVER had anyone show up from Texas or Louisiana in buses at Falls Creek. As of this date Sunday Sept 11, 2005 we still do not have anyone at Falls Creek The small town of Davis population of 2,000 have opened their arms and hearts to anyone who might have been impacted by Katrina.

They were very offended when I forwarded them your comments about their "little town". They are "Okies" and very proud of the fact they can lend a hand to any "guest" of Oklahoma There are still questions that need to be answered however, and I'm not seeing any answers forthcoming.
What about the bioterror angle? Not so much as a whisper from officials.

What's going one, besides damage control I mean... feel strongly your wording is one of 'acceptance' of government edicts. i don't believe people's rights have been protected and i don't
believe what was ordered was for the 'good of the peopele' (my quotes). it appears to be a soothing post, you made. a post to suggest questions shouldn't be asked.

it seems as though whatever was going to happen at Falls Creek has been averted solely due to Valhall's original post concerning this matter. but i ask: how many other 'camps' haven't been 'de-activated'? camps which haven't made it into the spotlight? i'm not assured the initial poster of this thread has the public's best interests at heart and fear it is spin. the public should always be watchful and frequently question anything presented as something for the greater good. all the above is my opinion only.

Well, just to clear up. I think Mr. Ed came on a bit defensive and maybe he was genuinely upset about the things I stated in my article. To the point he was a bit scattered in his replies. He seemed to be a decent guy and I hope he comes back and answers my questions. He has now explained:

1. Why hundreds of volunteers were turned away from the camp on Monday. I would like to point out that this turning away led to the situation where many, many cabins had been stocked and decorated (the bathrooms in our cabin looked like you had walked into a freshly restored hotel bathroom with decorative towels and handrags and little baskets of hygiene products beside each sink), but other cabins didn't even have the beds made, and had no supplies or preparations in the least. <=== This could have caused a riot.

2. He explained why the Southern Baptists of Oklahoma can't be trusted to supply certain foods to these people - the evil ones amongst us might poison them or stick a razor blade in an apple.
3. He did NOT explain why pop-tarts are not considered "junk food".
4. He didn't sufficiently explain to me why the refugees needed to be kept away from the Oklahoma citizens who want to ease their discomfort, make them feel supported, and help them start new lives.
5. He DID say they could leave after they got "medicalled" (inside joke). But we already knew that, so he did NOT explain whether they could come and go from the camp.
6. He NEEDS to explain why Davis would be offended by my concerns about Falls Creek. He also needs to explain why Davis's open hearts and arms have any more vested in this than any other city in Oklahoma. (Proximity doesn't count.)
7. He did NOT explain why they can't have milk.
8. He says Oklahoma DHS demands three meals per day, but that's not what was said at the camp. I wish he WOULD clarify this.

FUNNY NOTE: He said Red Cross and Salvation Army will be preparing the meals. Guess what organization owns (as far as I know EVERY) EVERY mobile kitchen used by the Salvation Army and cooks every meal for Salvation Army relief efforts - that's right... the Southern Baptist Convention. *sigh*
9. He DID mention the large OHP presence, but there were crickets sounding when it came to the military presence.
10. He didn't explain why I should give a flying flip what Jesse Jackson says. I didn't know Jesse was setting Oklahoma state policies now!

I hope he comes back and answers the unresolved concerns that I posted in this thread in an earlier post. I hope he does.

The man works with deadly diseases and piles of dismembered corpses. I somehow doubt he's been scared away by little old me. I understand the desire some have voiced about being respectful and courteous to our new member.

I also think there's a clear difference between being courteous, and being defferential.
This gentleman's post elicited responses of various sorts, ranging from pleasant greetings to irate sarcasm. This is pretty standard, and provides a good cross-section of the views of the populace. I don't see any reason for the repeated requests from members to tone it down.

This is business as usual, no? Am I missing something? Dude made the decision to come here, probably with the best intentions. One can only hope he keeps coming back, and becomes a
valued member of the community, but there won't be any ring-kissing on my watch, not while FEMA continues to spend astronomical quantities of taxpayer money on a daily basis, with questionable results and, apparently, zero accountability.

The membership of ATS is a collection of individuals, so it should come as no surprise when we don't all share one opinion. Anyone embarassed by the actions of some members should perhaps be more realistic, and simply settle for being embarassed regarding human beings in general.
As I said before, there are hard questions still hanging, questions that require real answers. Until those are forthcoming, I caution against being overly protective of this gentleman. Besides, assumedly he can take care of himself, being an adult with a military record and a number of other accomplishments.but you have your answers for the most part.

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